Post by Juan Castrocafe on Jul 13, 2009 22:32:29 GMT -6
I deliver pizza on Sunday afternoons. I listen to Andre Eggelletion on 850 WFTL from 12 to 3. I don't agree with this man many times. I find him to be the perfect confrontation to my own self. I have to listen for that reason. He also appeals to me as a similar "southern minded" person. Some info about the show here: www.85owftl.com/pages/1635607.php The man has written some books. He does have an opinion. Sometimes, I feel he holds back on his show because he has to keep it together to stay on the air.
Today, he spoke of the incident about a public pool turning away black children. He asked a question about why does this exist? I found a bit of frustration as he was trying to divide and identify this matter along Democrat and Republican lines. I understand this. In fact, I may be rather qualified by reason of disability more than ability to understand it. I being on the outside looking in. I wanted to call him and explain my views on this matter. I was not able to. So here is my take on this question about why black people might be considered "dirty" in a greater social setting where they would still be ostracized from a place. Which I find horrible and sad that we are still rather fucked up as a species concerning the variations of our "strain". Anyhoo. What follows is my take.
***I was given some links from a friend, J.S. concerning the material as well. I am grateful for his contribution to this blab.***
I grew up in Tennessee. My parents have grown up in a time when the term "nigger" and considerations about black people were part of a greater "group collective". The black man in one form or another has been considered "wild" and "savage". You can look at Shakespeare's "Othello" which occurred way before the "slavery period" of the world. You also have to understand that there was a world wide use of slavery not especial to just the United States. The Caribbean was also a place where negroes were taken and brought to serve as laborers for other cultures to exploit. The treatment of these people differed greatly between cultures. Also, you have to understand the origins of how the Dutch set up shop in South Africa and created the longest dynasty of a "plantation" government which has served to subject and create a world wide consideration of the "black race" in a different light from all others.
The slavery era brought an original race of people from a country that once they separated from that country, their origins ceased to be continuous and they eventually became a very different "collective mentality" from their original mother country. In America, there was the making fun of black people and the treatment of black people as a lesser personage for such a long time that it has become a "meme" in both black and white culture. It is engrained in every state in America and comes in different forms. Just when the "emancipation" came through, it took over a century before segregation was starting to be done away with. However, let us look at something more primal here.
Consider a little white boy, having racial parents because they were part of a polarized culture. His parents however, thought badly of their own shortcomings so he was taught to see things differently. This child also had many social and behavioral problems with what is termed as symptoms of Asperger's that "normal" was never an issue. He considered many black boys his closest friends because frankly, they would hang and play with him just as he was. It is funny though that a white boy playing with black boys in Tennessee at the time I grew up was called a "nigger lover" by most all the other white boys who really weren't racist at all. However, they were parroting a particular aspect of culture that goes into the tribal mindset. That is, if you are not a member of the tribe, you are an outsider and most of the time, they'd kill you if you were. So, there is a cultural difference between me and the other black boys I grew up with, except one I knew, turns out, he was different, never sure if he was Asperger's. My friend Clifford was a black boy growing up in Belvedere, Tennessee. A place where white farmers held a tradition of generations of farming the land and blacks were never considered worthy of land ownership. Cliff's mom took care of a farm. Her husband died. She still kept it going. They ran a farm in Belvedere. Understand too though that the Co-op and grain mills were ran by white farmers too. Her grain, tobacco and soybeans got less per pound and many people knew it. No one, not even the most resound "Christian" in all the supposed "HOLY CHURCHES" where they followed the will of "GOD" would stand up for this woman. Cliff was not a hateful person. He was a very gentle soul. He did not have a cluster of black people that he would go to and be different than when he was with me. I did not have a cluster of white boys that I could go to that I would act differently with. We were as we are. However, I was aware that white boys hung with white boys, black boys hung with black boys and at times, when it was individual to individual, there might be a different behavior than when they were with the group.
It is a "group" think that causes this. Because, like the tribe, most people do belong to a group and the first part of it has to do with the similarity. Race. Now, in the animal kingdom, you will not see a gazelle running with a zebra. It is a survival technique based upon strength in numbers to keep a species or even subspecies going. Lowland gorillas do not associate with chimpanzees. Penguins may live next to sea lions, but there are divisions in the groups and no intermingling. This is the primary law of the animal kingdom of which man is still subject to an instinctive drive as an animal to behave under. Anything not like the group, anything not quite in the same manner as the group would either be killed, left behind or would be sacrificed if a lion or predator came for the safety of the group. Conformance is a big part of this "instinct". Every tribe, every culture has a certain tolerance range in humankind. Rarely do you see it go too far with race. Finally, we are evolving to where it is lessened, but even to this day. There are very powerful subconscious "conditionings" that apply to both the black and white race concerning "perception". I believe because of this "keeping the black man down" action, even the black race itself, keeps itself down. It is a "learned behavior". This behavior is not spoken directly in such a manner. It is a mechanism which causes strife. It is a force with which wealth empires are still being built upon. It is a powerful force that in many ways still enslaves, still segregates and still subjugates people into striations, classes and keeps people in their place. It is more powerful than religion because religion has not overcome it.
I had a black janitor at my church when I was a kid invite me to his church, where he was a minister. I went a few times. I can understand how one creme feels in a box full of oreo cookie outers. I got angry stares. I got many of the fakest religious "God loves you" and "welcome brother" that you could just feel they were doing for some piety reason. Likewise, this janitor preacher man never attended my church, so, we all sat together in my church, every time, we would both get hateful stares. People who normally liked me would avoid me. With or without my friend. The way people in the church treated me after that was markedly different. Works both ways and yeah, maybe Jesus saves, but he does so in different places for different people, in different ways.
I was in the ARMY, I ran with a group of people consisting more of open minded individuals as we were a mixed group of people. I would take a shower after a run. I might take a shower in the morning. It was the only two times a day I would shower. It was practical. My black friends would shower about four times a day. I thought this practice was a bit selfish, as we all shared the same mass shower stalls. I did not understand it. This was not to prepare to meet girls. This was not for some formal engagement. Most of my black friends in the military were exceptionally clean four times a day. I had to ask. Why do you take so many baths? The reply was "because I don't want anyone saying I smell foul or that I am dirty"...I also had a few guys tell me that they get dirtier easier than I would. I did not believe it but they argued with me that I just did not understand. I still to this day do not believe it.
So, there is the issue of white people fleeing a public pool when black people get in it. It is in the news recently. Understand. This happened a great deal. There is something in our culture that has taught us this raciality in a very subtle way. Consider one place being the Uncle Rhemus stories that most children when I was growing up were exposed to because for some reason, anything Disney was good for the kids of white folks to be exposed to. There is the tale of Brier Rabbit. Now, Brier Rabbit was a tasty desire of Brier Fox. For a long time the idea of the tar baby story never struck me as racial. I have come to understand how it perpetuates an uncleanliness about anything "black". So, Brier Fox fashioned a baby out of tar. This actually would be hard to do. The illustrations in the book however looked a lot like the British Gollywog rendtitions and black sambo cartoons. The tar baby was a black person. So, Brier Rabbit had to talk to this "tar baby" as obviously rabbits must speak to babies I guess. The tar baby did not respond to the rabbit. Basically the rabbit got pissed of as tar babies are supposed to talk when spoken to. So the rabbit hits the tar baby, but the tar baby sticks to him. In some way, it taught white children that talking to black children could cause you to get caught and be dirty from "tar". Then Uncle Rhemus skips down the road singing Zippity Doo Dah, as if he is just some happy moron.
Samuel Clemmons did not like this but in a very Jonathan Swift way, Huckleberry Finn and Nigger John were friends and there was a humanity seperate from conditioning going on while Clemmons pointed out that there was such a thing going on.
So, when black people come to a pool. The group of white people are going to follow a polarity of something subconsious that they don't even understand. I do not believe it is a conscious thing as much as a hidden fear of illness, sickness and survival that causes them to group together and become far more offensive than they should be. In the same time, the black children are kept from going into the pool and this too teaches them that maybe they are sub-human. They are not. No one stopped this act. It is an offense because it did complete in its action in this day and age. It has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. There is a social order that all races follow on automatic. In many ways the testing Stanley Milgram did on obedience does indicate that about 37% of humankind(he tested mainly white people in college) will not follow tradition or the "norm" while 63% of people will fall in line because that is how it is done. Consider the following videos.
There is a power of collective consciousness so powerful that people are not as individual as they are part of the flock they belong to. It is sad because man would seem to have reason above most things that even in differences, the entire human race needs all of its parts to remain whole and vital. Who taught you to hate yourself?
Consider Milgram's results. People use the moral equivalence of conformity to allow them to give a "lethal shock" to someone as part of an experiment. This does go farther. Also consider reading Milgrams "the perils of obedience" discourse, copy can be found here: www.grossmont.edu/bertdill/docs/perilsobed.pdf
Consider that instead of a professor, it is the group you belong to. The "overmind" of the collective consciousness might be not in agreeance with you, however, belonging to this group and despite the differences you may feel can cause something dissimilar in the way you would act if it was as an individual in a one on one. Free your mind and your ass will follow!
Before Milgram, Solomon Asche did studies on conformity. Both Milgram and Asche have some skew to their sampling, however, they both do point to both conformity and obedience.
Lastly, there is so much on this subject, thought this last piece would serve as some mind candy. www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep03208215.pdf
Many people may have read through this. I doubt it will have much of any affect and will cause many who read it to parrot their own "conditioning". I believe that I wrote this for two people specifically. Anyone else who takes the time to follow a pointing finger, all I can offer is bon voyage on the discovery...I do not believe that anything definitive has been made from what Milgram and Asche did...I do believe that they offered something more powerful as this can be such a weapon in the hands of people and propaganda. Perhaps some of you have heard of Adolf Hitler. Ever wonder what he knew of the power of conformity and group consciousness?
Today, he spoke of the incident about a public pool turning away black children. He asked a question about why does this exist? I found a bit of frustration as he was trying to divide and identify this matter along Democrat and Republican lines. I understand this. In fact, I may be rather qualified by reason of disability more than ability to understand it. I being on the outside looking in. I wanted to call him and explain my views on this matter. I was not able to. So here is my take on this question about why black people might be considered "dirty" in a greater social setting where they would still be ostracized from a place. Which I find horrible and sad that we are still rather fucked up as a species concerning the variations of our "strain". Anyhoo. What follows is my take.
***I was given some links from a friend, J.S. concerning the material as well. I am grateful for his contribution to this blab.***
I grew up in Tennessee. My parents have grown up in a time when the term "nigger" and considerations about black people were part of a greater "group collective". The black man in one form or another has been considered "wild" and "savage". You can look at Shakespeare's "Othello" which occurred way before the "slavery period" of the world. You also have to understand that there was a world wide use of slavery not especial to just the United States. The Caribbean was also a place where negroes were taken and brought to serve as laborers for other cultures to exploit. The treatment of these people differed greatly between cultures. Also, you have to understand the origins of how the Dutch set up shop in South Africa and created the longest dynasty of a "plantation" government which has served to subject and create a world wide consideration of the "black race" in a different light from all others.
The slavery era brought an original race of people from a country that once they separated from that country, their origins ceased to be continuous and they eventually became a very different "collective mentality" from their original mother country. In America, there was the making fun of black people and the treatment of black people as a lesser personage for such a long time that it has become a "meme" in both black and white culture. It is engrained in every state in America and comes in different forms. Just when the "emancipation" came through, it took over a century before segregation was starting to be done away with. However, let us look at something more primal here.
Consider a little white boy, having racial parents because they were part of a polarized culture. His parents however, thought badly of their own shortcomings so he was taught to see things differently. This child also had many social and behavioral problems with what is termed as symptoms of Asperger's that "normal" was never an issue. He considered many black boys his closest friends because frankly, they would hang and play with him just as he was. It is funny though that a white boy playing with black boys in Tennessee at the time I grew up was called a "nigger lover" by most all the other white boys who really weren't racist at all. However, they were parroting a particular aspect of culture that goes into the tribal mindset. That is, if you are not a member of the tribe, you are an outsider and most of the time, they'd kill you if you were. So, there is a cultural difference between me and the other black boys I grew up with, except one I knew, turns out, he was different, never sure if he was Asperger's. My friend Clifford was a black boy growing up in Belvedere, Tennessee. A place where white farmers held a tradition of generations of farming the land and blacks were never considered worthy of land ownership. Cliff's mom took care of a farm. Her husband died. She still kept it going. They ran a farm in Belvedere. Understand too though that the Co-op and grain mills were ran by white farmers too. Her grain, tobacco and soybeans got less per pound and many people knew it. No one, not even the most resound "Christian" in all the supposed "HOLY CHURCHES" where they followed the will of "GOD" would stand up for this woman. Cliff was not a hateful person. He was a very gentle soul. He did not have a cluster of black people that he would go to and be different than when he was with me. I did not have a cluster of white boys that I could go to that I would act differently with. We were as we are. However, I was aware that white boys hung with white boys, black boys hung with black boys and at times, when it was individual to individual, there might be a different behavior than when they were with the group.
It is a "group" think that causes this. Because, like the tribe, most people do belong to a group and the first part of it has to do with the similarity. Race. Now, in the animal kingdom, you will not see a gazelle running with a zebra. It is a survival technique based upon strength in numbers to keep a species or even subspecies going. Lowland gorillas do not associate with chimpanzees. Penguins may live next to sea lions, but there are divisions in the groups and no intermingling. This is the primary law of the animal kingdom of which man is still subject to an instinctive drive as an animal to behave under. Anything not like the group, anything not quite in the same manner as the group would either be killed, left behind or would be sacrificed if a lion or predator came for the safety of the group. Conformance is a big part of this "instinct". Every tribe, every culture has a certain tolerance range in humankind. Rarely do you see it go too far with race. Finally, we are evolving to where it is lessened, but even to this day. There are very powerful subconscious "conditionings" that apply to both the black and white race concerning "perception". I believe because of this "keeping the black man down" action, even the black race itself, keeps itself down. It is a "learned behavior". This behavior is not spoken directly in such a manner. It is a mechanism which causes strife. It is a force with which wealth empires are still being built upon. It is a powerful force that in many ways still enslaves, still segregates and still subjugates people into striations, classes and keeps people in their place. It is more powerful than religion because religion has not overcome it.
I had a black janitor at my church when I was a kid invite me to his church, where he was a minister. I went a few times. I can understand how one creme feels in a box full of oreo cookie outers. I got angry stares. I got many of the fakest religious "God loves you" and "welcome brother" that you could just feel they were doing for some piety reason. Likewise, this janitor preacher man never attended my church, so, we all sat together in my church, every time, we would both get hateful stares. People who normally liked me would avoid me. With or without my friend. The way people in the church treated me after that was markedly different. Works both ways and yeah, maybe Jesus saves, but he does so in different places for different people, in different ways.
I was in the ARMY, I ran with a group of people consisting more of open minded individuals as we were a mixed group of people. I would take a shower after a run. I might take a shower in the morning. It was the only two times a day I would shower. It was practical. My black friends would shower about four times a day. I thought this practice was a bit selfish, as we all shared the same mass shower stalls. I did not understand it. This was not to prepare to meet girls. This was not for some formal engagement. Most of my black friends in the military were exceptionally clean four times a day. I had to ask. Why do you take so many baths? The reply was "because I don't want anyone saying I smell foul or that I am dirty"...I also had a few guys tell me that they get dirtier easier than I would. I did not believe it but they argued with me that I just did not understand. I still to this day do not believe it.
So, there is the issue of white people fleeing a public pool when black people get in it. It is in the news recently. Understand. This happened a great deal. There is something in our culture that has taught us this raciality in a very subtle way. Consider one place being the Uncle Rhemus stories that most children when I was growing up were exposed to because for some reason, anything Disney was good for the kids of white folks to be exposed to. There is the tale of Brier Rabbit. Now, Brier Rabbit was a tasty desire of Brier Fox. For a long time the idea of the tar baby story never struck me as racial. I have come to understand how it perpetuates an uncleanliness about anything "black". So, Brier Fox fashioned a baby out of tar. This actually would be hard to do. The illustrations in the book however looked a lot like the British Gollywog rendtitions and black sambo cartoons. The tar baby was a black person. So, Brier Rabbit had to talk to this "tar baby" as obviously rabbits must speak to babies I guess. The tar baby did not respond to the rabbit. Basically the rabbit got pissed of as tar babies are supposed to talk when spoken to. So the rabbit hits the tar baby, but the tar baby sticks to him. In some way, it taught white children that talking to black children could cause you to get caught and be dirty from "tar". Then Uncle Rhemus skips down the road singing Zippity Doo Dah, as if he is just some happy moron.
Samuel Clemmons did not like this but in a very Jonathan Swift way, Huckleberry Finn and Nigger John were friends and there was a humanity seperate from conditioning going on while Clemmons pointed out that there was such a thing going on.
So, when black people come to a pool. The group of white people are going to follow a polarity of something subconsious that they don't even understand. I do not believe it is a conscious thing as much as a hidden fear of illness, sickness and survival that causes them to group together and become far more offensive than they should be. In the same time, the black children are kept from going into the pool and this too teaches them that maybe they are sub-human. They are not. No one stopped this act. It is an offense because it did complete in its action in this day and age. It has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. There is a social order that all races follow on automatic. In many ways the testing Stanley Milgram did on obedience does indicate that about 37% of humankind(he tested mainly white people in college) will not follow tradition or the "norm" while 63% of people will fall in line because that is how it is done. Consider the following videos.
There is a power of collective consciousness so powerful that people are not as individual as they are part of the flock they belong to. It is sad because man would seem to have reason above most things that even in differences, the entire human race needs all of its parts to remain whole and vital. Who taught you to hate yourself?
Consider Milgram's results. People use the moral equivalence of conformity to allow them to give a "lethal shock" to someone as part of an experiment. This does go farther. Also consider reading Milgrams "the perils of obedience" discourse, copy can be found here: www.grossmont.edu/bertdill/docs/perilsobed.pdf
Consider that instead of a professor, it is the group you belong to. The "overmind" of the collective consciousness might be not in agreeance with you, however, belonging to this group and despite the differences you may feel can cause something dissimilar in the way you would act if it was as an individual in a one on one. Free your mind and your ass will follow!
Before Milgram, Solomon Asche did studies on conformity. Both Milgram and Asche have some skew to their sampling, however, they both do point to both conformity and obedience.
Lastly, there is so much on this subject, thought this last piece would serve as some mind candy. www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep03208215.pdf
Many people may have read through this. I doubt it will have much of any affect and will cause many who read it to parrot their own "conditioning". I believe that I wrote this for two people specifically. Anyone else who takes the time to follow a pointing finger, all I can offer is bon voyage on the discovery...I do not believe that anything definitive has been made from what Milgram and Asche did...I do believe that they offered something more powerful as this can be such a weapon in the hands of people and propaganda. Perhaps some of you have heard of Adolf Hitler. Ever wonder what he knew of the power of conformity and group consciousness?
