Publishing...Holy Crap!

[johnyamrus]

Hi;
i'm not sure how to start this, but david asked me to post a thread just talking about publishing in general. i've been publishing since 1970, with 16 books and more than 800 poems published in magazines around the world. selections of my work have been translated into several languages including Swedish, Italian, Spanish, Japanese and most recently Romanian.
over that time i've learned a lot and forgotten even more. if anyone has any questions about publishing and writing for publication, please feel free to write and ask. i'll try to check this thread every day or every couple of days and maybe we can all learn something. if you post something in this thread please do me a favor and let me know what your literary intentions are and what your background is. i mean...are you writing just to amuse yourself and a few people on the net and have no aspirations beyond that, let me know. or, are your intentions to take it further. let me know that, as well.
please understand that i'm smug, arrogant and opinionated and most of what i'll have to say won't be worth a hill of beans. but, every now and then you'll be able to wade thru my bullshit and find something usefull.
oh, and if your intentions are serious, but you've not read anything modern other than what you've seen on the net, and all you're writing is moon/june dappled daisy iambic pentameter poetry, please don't bother to waste my time or yours. do your homework and then let's get down to serious business.
that being said...if you've got any questions...fire away!
let's have some fun!

[DavidMc]

Thanks for starting this thread John.

May I begin with this question. What motivated you to get published? We are told there isn't any money in poetry. So I guess you must have had a deeper desire.

You have a very impressive CV and I can tell by the responses you get here and elsewhere you work is much liked.

Maybe you could tell us a little about how it all started for you?

David

[johnyamrus]

how'd i get into writing? easy. i was too small for the football team and not good enough for the baseball team. writing poems was an easy way to get girls. true story. that's how i got started. i quickly learned that the better i wrote, the prettier the girls got. i got good real quick.
then i started hanging around all the "arteests"...they were all much better writers than me...but all they did was talk about it. they never did anything about it.
you still see these arteest types out and about. a couple of months ago i was giving a reading for my then newest book and there was a nice crowd there. maybe 80 people. it was before the reading and i was bored silly so i started up a conversation with this guy. i made the mistake of asking him if he wrote...i should have just started banging my head against a wall right then and there because it would have been less painfull. he launched into this long long talk about how he's taken classes with so and so and had workshops with so and so and a residence with so and so...and, glutton for punishment that i am, i made the further mistake of asking him "yes, but have you published anything yet?"...to which he happily replied..."ahem, ...harrumph...ah, yes...in the last 10 years i've RELEASED 7 poems to the magazines". RELEASED!
i'm thinking to myself, good god, man, it's just poetry...not brain surgery. ah, but i'm getting off topic, aren't i? the point is...that's how i got started...i couldn't stand just sitting around talking about it. i had to get out and do it. so, i started sending stuff out the the magazines. i made it a point to send something out every day. every single day i'd either send some stuff to a magazine...or answer a letter from a magazine. something. but i did it every day. that's another thing...there's really no big mystery or secret to getting published. the hardest thing about it, once you've got the thing written, is being consistent in your habits. just keep throwing stuff at the wall and sooner or later something's gonna stick. no mystery at all.
later...
john
p.s. and if anyone's looking for my books, david's got a link posted right on this site...i think it's to my newest. you can also just go to www.barnesandnoble.com and find the 2 newest.
jy

[johnyamrus]

okay, let's talk about "inspiration". if your intention is a little higher than writing just for personal enlightenment and to entertain a few of your friends, then you've got to take being a poet...god, i hate the word poet...it sounds like so much lofty, quill-penned, high-falutin' snobbishness...no, if it's your intention to become a writer who writes poetry, then you've got to take it seriously. you can't just sit around waiting for "inspiration" to land on you. you've got to write every day. being facile with the pen is just like anything else...the more you do it the better you'll get. write every day. sure, most of what you write will be crap and will get tossed out, but the more you do it, the less you'll toss out. like i said, it's not brain surgery. if you treat writing like any other endeavor you want to improve at, and do it every day...do it with passion and heart and soul...then you WILL get better.
it's as simple as that.

[anirbas]

now, that last post sounds like something I could have said myself...
enjoyed your no nonsense, no bullshit approach, in your other posts, JY.
nice to see someone cutting through the crap...loved the honesty of your statement...
i first wrote poetry to get the girls...LOL...and that's the gist of what you said, not ver batim...

i wouldn't poo-poo those whom write poetry or prose just to "entertaing themselves" or friends and family...or those whose only avenue of getting their stuff out there, is the internet...or for whom that's as far as they care to go...we don't all want or need the same things, JY...simple, but yes?

cracked up laughing at so much of what you said...i could so see you and the pain in the ass you spoke of making the mistake of speaking to...

and now that i've digressed...me? i've been writing seriously, as far as on a daily basis, the past three and half years. before that, nothing since my high school days for the grade; and the occasional poem about one or the other of my two children, over the years, here and there...

would i like to be published and paid for doing something i enjoy--basically, letting my mind wander willy nilly where it may, while i sit on my behind? HELL YEAH! is it neccessary for me to write? HELL NO! i write, because i opened a closed door in my head, on something i was good at in high school...and then found i couldn't close the floodgate...in fact, i think the dratted gate got washed away...and there is no sense in trying to close it...but, sometimes, i wish i could close the gate...because writing again, has gotten me into a lot of trouble, one way or another, the past three and a half years...

would love to follow your advice on sending paper at people til something sticks somewhere...
soon as i get a printer, to go with my entity...working on that...when that happens...i'll probably disappear, altogether from the cyber scene...busying copying and pasting and downloading and printing off old stuff to send anywhere, while i'm busying writing new stuff as the inspirationing takes me...

as for inspirationing...i get it from everywhere and nowhere...often, i write ten or more poems a day, on various subjects from one genre to another...i like to write in every genre i can to stretch the rubber band in my head a bit further...i don't much do religion or spirituality, per se...i'm an indifferentist...i don't get those subjects no matter how much i armchair study religions since the dawn of time...LOL...

okie dokie...inshort...loved picking your brain, JY...got more??

Sabrina.

[johnyamrus]

got more? i've always got more. let's talk about influences...and just to keep things understood...or at least a bit easier for me...i'm writing here in these posts about writing for publication...or at least making your work better...for people who are serious about improving their work. in order to d that you've got to read read and read. even if you consider yourself a new formalist and don't want to write free verse, you've got to be aware of what's going on out there and obviously, the bull in the china shop is Bukowski. like him or hate him he cannot be ignored. if you haven't read at least one bukowski book you're missing the boat. it's a monday morning and we've been out of town all weekend and i haven't properly collected my thoughts, but i did very much want to post at least something and the first thing that comes to mind is for people who aspire to publishing poetry in print...please make sure you take it a step at a time. everything happens in a proper sequence. i know someone who had never published anything anywhere before...a very good writer...with no publication history...and this person was asking my advice. well, i said that the best thing to do is start out in the magazines...making contacts, getting your name out there...establishing yourself. i wasn't listened to. this person secured a deal with publishamerica and more or less thought that was the end of the road. well, in the first year, because this person was unknown, her much loved and sweated over book sold exactly 22 copies (2 to me), because she didn't follow the proper steps. take your time. and when you send stuff off to the magazines...make realistic goals for yourself...don't start as an unknown with no contacts or credentials sending things off to the top magazines in the business...barring lightning in a bottle you're going to strike out. no, get yourself a copy of "poet's market" or something like that and do your research and start small...find magazines that will hopefully be a bit more open to newer or unknown writers. take it a step at a time. then start networking. collecting names and contacts. believe me...it's on the other side of the street from the art of writing the poetry, but it's a necessary evil.
that's about all i have in me right now.
more, later.
john

[johnyamrus]

anirbas in another thread commented on my "no nonsense" approach to poetry. like i said to her in that thread...poetry's no big deal. you sit down. you do it. and then go into the kitchen for a beer. there's no great big "mystery" to it. and the guys who want you to belive that there is are only trying to maintain what they perceive as the gulf that exists between you and them. they're elitists at heart...and poetry (as i see it) is not an elitist thing. it belongs to the people. to you and me. it should make you feel good. it should raise you up. it should make you laugh and think.
above all, it shouldn't make you feel stupid and uninformed.
poetry's a joy.
at least it should be. lately, with the totally unexpected success of my two newest books i've been giving a lot of readings. and some of them are followed by an open mic session hosted by whatever group is sponsoring the reading. and the poets get up there and read their work in solemn stentorian voices like they're delivering the word of god from on high. it makes me feel like i want to take my pen and poke my eyes out and bleed all over their rug in protest. but i'm stupid. i sit there and listen and politely applaud. a partner in their crime.
at least when it's over i get to go home and take a shower and maybe my wife's waiting up for me with a ham sandwich and a glass of wine and the latest story about our dog and her ongoing fued with the dog next door. after that i'll get to wash it all down with another poem and another glass of wine.
no mystery.
just poetry.

[DavidMc]

Hi John, Really interesting stuff you've started here, and glad to hear your books are selling. Keep up the good work.

David

[anirbas]

i don't feel writing poetry is a mystery...you're drawn to do it or you aren't...i do feel we all
write differently, or access the muse differently...some of us write poetry on a daily basis...sometimes loads of it...i know i do, unless i'm suffering a bout of creative inertia...
then i don't write so much, but i still write on a daily basis...others, may only write one piece a week...some even one a month...some, a couple a day...

i'll file the info about mag publishment, first...and to start with the lightweights, not the heavy weights in that market...Poet's Market...is it a book or magazine? you may have said...

agree poetry is and should be of the people...poetry should reflect all in life, the joys as well the darker days and emotions...i'm not one that thinks poetry has to make me smile or make me think...i am equally adoring of darker poetry...the stuff of life...the emotions of lives lived...
the nitty gritty of what's really out there on the street...drug addiction, prostitution, hungry kids, broken hearts, poverty beyond belief...

that doesn't mean a poet, must write about all in life to be a poet...each poet brings a different perspective of life and living to the literary table, yes?

ah, but I digress...i could talk about poets and poetry, all day...or night...two of my fav subjects...however, i do not own a copy of bukowski...never read him, to be honest...which is why, in poetical reference to him, in one of your threads, i said i did not know if he was mad...
so, guess i should look into his brain gases...see what all the rigamarole with bukowski is all about, at the very least...

hope you got your daily ham sandwich and your sweetheart nattering your ear off
about your dog or the dog next door...those are the events, that make life, palatable...yes?

nir.

[johnyamrus]

any questions?

[johnyamrus]

considering the difference between inspiration vs perspiration....please check out my latest poem "i ask". i posted it earlier today. while i'm a big fan of inspiration and very grateful whenever it happens to flop on my now greying head....i nonetheless find that the more i write the more often i get "inspired". sitting around waiting for it to happen is only going to lead to rust and decay.
now, let's talk about getting yr poems published. i'm always very surprised how few people are aware of books like "poet's market" or "writer's market"...they're big huge fat lists of publishers and all their info even listing the type of work they're looking for and where and how to submit. those two books are at the top of my list, but there's shelf after shelf of great books out there which will make getting published that much easier.
listen, there's any number of wannabe writers out there...people who can write ten times better than any one of us. but, if they're unknown, they don't stand any better chance of getting published than you or i. no, the thing is in getting your work in front of the right publishers in the right way. like i said earlier...do your research. don't just pick a magazine at random out of a list. find out about the magazine...you wouldn't want to send a religious poem to whiplash/bondage magazine any more than you would send a poem titled "scratching my big fat hairy ass" to The Christian Science Monitor. it's all about putting yourself in a position to succeed.
here's where i always get the "arteests" bent out of shape concerning me....there's no great big mystery about getting published. once you've got something competently and intelligently written, the next thing to do is get yourself organised and get to work on finding a publisher for it. and, if any prospective publisher so much as mentions money...YOUR money...run for the hills.
more on that, later.
i hope there's people reading this. i wouldn't want to be wasting my time...especially when it could be just as well served by putting more poems in the mail.
john

[shell]

*still chuckling at your last* ...

I am enjoying this thread, John! In that wry, gentle way you have, what you say kind of sneaks in and asks enormous questions with impressive style *grin

This will inevitably be an incomplete response – but no, you are not wasting your time with this thread. I am just going to write it as it comes, maybe tidy it up later, most likely not. And of course this is for everyone too!

I have always written, always buried or lost it along the way, then subsumed it to 3d life which all but destroyed me in the end and certainly held a knife at any muse’s throat who dared to come close. For me, denial of the muse was akin to self-harming. Along with a host of other influencing stuff, i removed myself from teaching and gave myself to writing.

David was perceptive enough to point out i was re-finding myself. I think that is what life is about anyhow but however it manifests, writing became my voice. These days i would like to see how my voice fits with readers who do not know me, as entertainment if nothing else. But they have to choose me. I mean here, i can swamp you all with my voice – it costs nothing and you don’t even have to open the front door to find it. But would you buy it? That is a whole other matter (and maybe one i will expand on in a later post)

There will, as John said, always be “better” writers than ourselves – does that matter? What does “better” or “best” mean to you? If a poem is flawed does that make it unworthy? What has publication got to do with un/worthy anyway? No, really? Publishing is a strange beast, i think … and how much of your life do you wish to dedicate to even thinking about any of that? But then, if the aim is to stay on the fence or purely to share with beloveds then that is fine. But get clear about it. If we are talking publishing at all though, surely we have to say that we are looking to try something else? A wider audience, maybe?

Personal need and creativity are perfect soulmates. Does it make for good writing? Sometimes. Not always. Does it mean publication is a natural next step? Sometimes. Not always. I know some superb writers who shun the idea of publishing. They see it as theft or prostitution … some psychics tread the same thin line between sharing their gift freely and earning a living from it. Should they, shouldn’t they? Could they, couldn’t they? I think that prevarication is a beast invented by those who would love for everyone to hang on tight to illusions of unworth. What is good and what isn’t, what is worthy and what isn’t are innately misunderstood concepts.

We must each find our own balance. Prevarication is not balance, except in the most uncomfortable of ways. There is no right or wrong here but i think many get caught up in nets of “what’s right to do” – and do nothing. Many of us CAN write to demand, on demand – many of us lie low and wait for Inspiration. This is where John’s poem “i ask” says it all. What do you want and what can you DO to make it happen? Where did you draw your line? Even if you did not think you had a line, you have … find it and move it if you so choose is what i say! *grin

I haven’t said everything that was rattling around inside but i think this post is long enough as is … if it is helpful at all i’ll continue … *hehe … maybe it will help me to find and move my own line too …

[johnyamrus]

i guess our little thread on publishing has run its course. either there's no readers for our idea here or everyone already has all the answers... or interested in writing only to post on the net. in any case, i won't spend any more time on this particular thread. if anyone stumbles these notes and thoughts and has any questions or would need help with anything, please feel free to e-mail me direct at [e-mail]
except for david, sabrina and shell's wonderful input, this bird hasn't really flown. my bad.
john

[anirbas]

My bad says John...ggglgggl...Shut up...You keep it up...You don't need a congregation to reach the world...Just the lucky few...ggglgggl...Or some such nirphilosophy...

Anyway, getting serious...I have questions...

Okie dokie...Let's say, I finally get a home printer...

Is it okay to send home printed copies of one's work out?

Does the grade of paper, matter, the copy is printed on?

Do I need a cover sheet for the work?

Should I send a letter requesting publishment, or just the poem or work, itself?

And, lastly, for the moment...Does it matter what you send it in? Should it be,
in a big envelope, the paper doesn't have to be folded to fit into?

And John, word to the wise, "old man"...Just because people aren't commenting...
Doesn't mean they aren't reading...I am enjoying picking your brain and reading your thoughts
as well on this subject...So, keep thoughts coming as you are inspired to do so...

And so agree, you must write, to be inspired to write...And daily writing, even if it's just to form return replies to email, is practice...All writing is practice...Letters, email replies, poems, stories, books as in your case.

I write even when I don't feel inspired to write...I mostly curse the paper or screen those days...But, often find as well...What sounded like crap one month...You can find later on, and it looks different to you...Or you're inspired to tweek it into something grand, cypherically...
So, I hang onto every scrap of paper I write a thought on...Well, I did...I just had myself
a fire this past Sunday, and torched every scrap of paper I'd written on, in three and half years...A dramatic, but oddly, freeing move...For me, anyway...Now, I'm starting my new pile of papers and spirals, to burn three and half years from now...ggglgggl...

Don't you dare stop brain gasing here. I'll tattle to your wife on you, that you are neglecting us...Or some such silliness...

Great weekending folks! I'm outta here...Time to take off my so called poet's hat...And don my chauffuer hat...I've got a driving Miss Daisy thing, going on with my daughter...School pickup time!

Sabrina

[johnyamrus]

sabrina...just for you, baby.
okay, say you're sending some stuff off to a magazine for consideration. whenever possible, get the editor's name...or the poetry editor's name. and please send a cover letter and SASE (self addressed stamped envelope) for rejections or a response of any type. it's funny...talking about rejections. yesterday i was reading an article on the great Lynn Lifshin...the queen of the american small press. she's had well over 3,000 (yep, that's right, 3 THOUSAND) poems published since the early '60s. with something like 130 books published... and in this interview she was asked if even this far into the game does she still get rejections and she answered that she still only hits 50% of the time. so, please, just because one stupid stinkin' editor says your work is worthless crap...don't believe him or her. just put that worthless crap right back into another envelope and send it right back out again.
and remember in your cover letter to the magazine editor, list the titles of the poems you're submitting. very often editors will send back a note scribbled on your submission letter either circling the ones they're taking or crossing out the ones they're not taking...something. anything. just make it as easy as possible for them to want your work. also, remember that editors are dopes (i edited and published two literary quarterlies over the years so i have first hand knowledge of that fact)...editors for the most part are pack animals without a single original thought. so, if you've had something published somewhere be sure to mention it...you know..."i'd like to submit these poems for your consideration...my work has recently been published by Needledick magazine, i hope you like what you see". and give the editor a second choice...if you like my work but these particular pieces aren't exactly what you're looking for, would you be interested in seeing more?
then give them the opportunity to reply to you via e-mail. make it easy.
and never Never NEVER tell them you've not been published before. if you haven't...it's better off to not say anything at all about your publishing history.
here's a true story...years ago when i was just starting out....this was back in 1970 and i had a good friend named rick and we both wanted to be writers and we were always complaining about editors not wanting to take our stuff because we'd never been published anywhere and never won any prizes...nothing. zero. we had no way of getting the attention of any editors because they all wanted to know where we'd been published before. well, one night we were walking down the street, complaining once again...we couldn't get published because we hadn't won any awards and we couldn't win any awards because we hadn't been published...drinking a bottle of Popov Vodka...cheap stuff that still gives me the creeps just to think of it...anyway, it's like 3 in the morning and we had reached the corner where (walking) he would go to his house and i'd go home to mine. we're standing there none too steadily on the corner of Oliver and Wakefield streets and rick takes the last swig from the bottle and looks up at the sign and says to me (handing me the bottle) "here, i now give you the Wakefield Prize for poetry".
now i'm not lying...every word of this is true...the next day i sent a batch of stuff off to a middle sized but recognizeable magazine saying to the editor that i'm submitting some work for his consideration, would he please take a look...oh, and by the way, i had recently been awarded the prestigious Wakefield Prize.
well, a couple of weeks later i got a letter from the editor saying that yes, he'd heard of the prize...congratulations...i'd very much like to take one of your poems for my magazine.
so, that's how i got my foot in the door.
i'm not saying to do anything like that, because those were simpler times...but...you get your foot in the door.
and once you get something accepted, make friends with the editor...eventually ask if he or she knows of any other magazines that might like your work.
remember...this is an everyday process. it's a marathon...not a sprint.
more, later...
john

[anirbas]

thanks a million, John and roflmao...your cypherical "war" stories and no-nonsense thoughts on writing, always crack me up...if it's a story, John, the Wakefield remenescience, then...it's a grand one...ggglgggl...but, then again, writers make the best storytellers...badabombom....

anyway, breaking it down to it's simplest...

SASE...

Cover letter listing the titles of the poems enclosed...
[Hey, I didn't know you could send more than one at a time!
Gooooood to know...Yes, good to know...]

BTW...What other ground should the cover letter, cover?
I mean, should it be chatty...Hi, I'm so and so and I hail from such and such and these are some pieces, I'd like to submit for your estimation and possible approval...Or cut and dried, Enclosed please find copies of these poems as titled, respectively on this cover page, for your purusal at your convenience...

okie dokie...never mentioned you've not been published...
here, we are entering some territory, you touched on earlier...
should one mention, or not, having been "published" by such internet "publisher's" as poetry.com and Noblehouse; and the names of the supposed anthologies, one's work has been published in by such places as these? or just mention the titles of the anthologies, one's work supposedly was a part of?

i wince asking, as i know you already mentioned avoiding such places, like the plague...and i don't fall for the salespitch...i just agree to allow them to publish whatever piece they request...

who knows if i'm actually published, if i don't buy the book...LOL...but, that's just the way it is...

and you didn't say...which is better?
to send your work in an envelope,
large enough to accomodate it,
without creasing the paper in folds...
or is it okay to send it in a business sized envelope?

oh..oh...and should you leave the paper work loose,
if numbered? or do you staple it all together,
if you are sending more than one piece?

think that's it for the moment...
and thanks for not giving up the ghost on us, John...
i knew the i'll tattle on you if you do threat would work...
your wife must be mean...ggglgggl...NOT...

Sabrina
;D

[johnyamrus]

hi Sabrina;
not much to write today...cleaning out the yard today...getting ready for winter...but i did want to quickly respond to you....loose sheets, not stapled (makes it easire for them to keep and or return parts of yr mss). also, be sure to put yr name on each and ever page submitted.
also, i always preferred unfolded sheets...it just looks so much more professional. remember, you're trying to set yourself apart from the crowd.
gotta run.
john

[DavidMc]

If you want to buy Johns or Shells books follow these links. If you have published let me know.

David

www.amazon.com/Solo-Songs-poetry-Shell-Heller/dp/1424113954/sr=1-1/qid=1159723774/ref=sr_1_1/002-0986108-8011233?ie=UTF8&s=books

search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=John%2BYamrus&z=y&cds2Pid=9481

[johnyamrus]

shell!
i didn't know (or forgot) that you have a book out. i just now IMMEDIATELY ordered a copy of solo songs. i can't wait to read it! have you any others? i'm a big believer in showing support. let me know if there's anything else of yours available for purchase...and where i can get my grubby little mitts on them.
john
and david...thanks for the plug!

[shell]

John - if you have ordered my book (the only one) then i thank you ... i think in general it has bombed because i did NOT do any of the things you advise in this totally worthwhile thread!

My line (which i refer to in previous post) is still blurred ... still illumined with the "look at the heritage i can leave to my son, i got in print" thing. Do i believe in my poetry? yes. Can i write better? yes. Do i want to do my voice justice and find an audience beyond forums? actually, much to my own surprise, yes.

i would like to do a second book. I spent a fortune sending hard copies off to u.k. publishers gleaned from "the writer's handbook". I can ill afford the postage. I got "no" at every turn. Publish America took me but for now don't wish to publish authors from outside the U.S. so i am a bit scuppered for now.

*gets off sort of soapbox* ... lol

Truly, thank you John for buying me! Thank you David for publicising me!

[DavidMc]

My pleasure.

David

[johnyamrus]

shell;
the fact that your book came out and tanked is no big deal. really. you've just got a little bit of work ahead of you, that's all. PublishAmerica, for all the grief they get is essentially a good thing. they print your book and sell and ship your book and send you checks. now, how bad can that be? the only thing is...you've got to make that book sell. they won't do it for you. so, get creative. understand that it'll be impossible to get your book into any of the majors. they really look down on POD publishers... that doesn't mean they exclude them totally...it just means that the only thing they care about concerning a book is "will it sell?" and, historically, POD books average less than 100 copies sold over the lifetime of the book. that information was shared with me by a B&N corporate rep. look at me...i've been publishing for 36 years and i'll bet there's not more than 75 B&N locations in the country that stock my stuff. no, it's an uphill battle every day. but it's one that i recognise and am willing to accept.
so, understanding the challenge that's presented itself to you, the question then is "how do i overcome it?"
again i go back to grass roots beginnings. get yr stuff in magazines. start to make friends with the editors and publishers. i've had one magazine that featured me...no, let me back up a bit...when the last two books came out i had made up business cards for each book...they had little thumbnail shots of the cover and they listed the title and ISBN and price and ordering information. they looked great. (if anyone wants to see them, send me yr address and i'll send them to you...the only thing i'd ever ask in return is that you order my book or books) they're good for when you're doing readings and stuff. good for handouts and leave-behinds. i also (since i have a lot more than 1 book to sell) put them into my OTHER books to let people know there's other stuff available. now, getting back to that magazine that recently featured my work...i worked out a deal with the editor...he inserted into each and every copy of the issue that featured me, a business card listing my newest book. since i've known the guy for years and years it didn't cost me a cent, but i'm sure you could work something out like that very very cheaply...if not for free.
it's all a matter of keeping a positive outlook and thinking outside the box.
more, later...
john

[anirbas]

Hehe...Errant brain gas...Shell, do you have any American friends, whose address you could use to give you the "American" edge, on getting a book published again, here? It would mean, they would have to redirect your mail to you...But, if it could be finessed, it could be worth your effort...Wanna use mine? What a crock...Only publising American poets, at this time...I see poets as universal...We aren't of any given country...We are of the world...We are society's conscience and entertainment...Or some such nirphilosophy and rot...

Thanks, John for the mailing info...NO STAPLED SHEETS...NO FOLDED SHEETS...Got it...

Shell, I'd love to buy a copy of your book...Question: Is it only available, on-line?
If so, that's a stymied point for me...As I don't do credit cards, nor do I have a checking account...Chopped up my credit cards, years ago...And closed out my banking account...
Don't regret the decision...UNLESS I WANT TO PURCHASE SOMETHING ON LINE!

Perhaps, if it is only available via the internet, my fairy godfather, will gift it to me...ggglgggl

I'd love to have at least one of your books, as well, John...And then, as someone else mentioned in here, sending each of your books to you, to have them signed...

Magnificent Mondaying, folks, followed by an entire week of the same magnificence!

[Juan Castrocafe]

John Dave Sabrina...thanks for this food for thought...this is a gift!

Johnnm

[johnyamrus]

it's all about passing it on. too many people keep this stuff to themselves...mostly because they're afraid of the competition. the way i look at it it's like karma...throw something good out there and something good's bound to bounce back in return.
my brain's mush today...does anyone have any questions re publishing that we haven't yet talked about?

[DavidMc]

If you want to buy John or shells books direct, send them a PM and I'm sure they will be able to advise. Thanks

David

[johnyamrus]

one thing i didn't mention is to be sure to show your support. whenever possible, pick up a subscription to some of the magazines you're submitting to. remember, most of the small magazines out there are existing on a shoestring and need all the help they can get. or, before you submit to a magazine, write to them and send 5 bucks or something and request a sample issue. chances are great you'll get a whole bunch sent to you. that's a gold mine. going thru one of the small mags will give you a ton of useful information. it'll not only show you the type (and length) of work they're printing, but it'll also probably give you a list of names of OTHER magazines as well. most of these magazines either have a review section or a "books and magazines recieved" section. so, one or two or three properly placed subscriptions will get you tons and tons of useful information.
remember...if you're serious about being published...once the work is written...then the "arteest" has to take a back seat to the business person.

[DavidMc]

Fantastic thread John, my appreciation. Please remember we are a tiny group in numbers, but HUGE in spirit!

Do you know any of the names of the Mags you were referring to? I'll try and research them and post them here.

David

[johnyamrus]

a great little magazine that's been publishing continually since 1968 is BOGG. it's distributed in both the US and UK. subscriptions are 6 pounds or 12 dollars.
editor is John Elsberg
422. N. Cleveland St.
Arlington, Virginia 22201
USA

UK Editor:
George Cairncross
31 Belle Vue St.
Filey
N. Yorkshire YO149HU
England

from Austrailia and New Zealand:
Robert Boyce
48 Academy Ave.
Mulgrave
Victoria 3170
Australia

and from Canada:
Sheila Martindale
P.O. Box 23148
380 Wellington St.
London
Ontario N6A6N9
Canada

however, John Elsberg is just coming out with his latest issue and he's sporadic rather than punctual in keeping with a publishing schedule, so it could be 6 months before you see another issue or longer. it WOULD however, be worthwhile sending him a few bucks or pounds and requesting a sample issue or a subscription.
beyond that, though, people should go out and do some research on their own. get a copy of "poet's market" and start from there. or, get a copy of BOGG and start with all the great mags listed there.
i hope this helps.
john

[DavidMc]

Heres a link I just found. Don't know a thing about any of the mags listed. Over to you.

www.poetrymagazines.org.uk/