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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 14, 2006 7:05:49 GMT -6
david;
again, i think you're misreading my intent. i'm not talking about the poets who are writing for themselves and their friends...those who dream of one day publishing but recognise that their work isn't good enough...now don't go getting all postal on me for saying that. it's just a fact that people would much rather pay to see streisand or someone rather than listen to your old uncle tony singing in the shower. isn't that being judgemental as well?
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 14, 2006 7:16:53 GMT -6
;D
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 14, 2006 7:47:29 GMT -6
after i wrote that last post i signed off...but came back here to say that it doesn't diminish the fact that uncle tony's having a blast singing in the shower...
i mean...we all pay good money to go out and see atheletes performing at the top of their game, but that doesn't stop us from going out in the back yard and kicking the ball around.
same thing.
judgemental? all life is judgemental.
see you later...
i'm going out the back to kick the ball around.
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 14, 2006 8:14:40 GMT -6
I get grumpy too ... especially when my team are losing. Turned it around in the second half and won 3-1!
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Post by vixen on Oct 14, 2006 12:22:27 GMT -6
Hi,
John, I agree with you that some peoploe aren't good enough to publish to general audiences, but I do think there will always be audiences for people to get their stuff out there. The only way that you will ever find out if your stuff will sell is to get it out there and build an audience.I am following your advice, starting small. I n the community I work in I have found that there is an arts performing arts presentation coming up soon. I am going to do a poetry reading there. I've submitted some pieces and the committee accepted me for the performance. Its both exciting and scarey, but like you say its a process. Thank for all your help.
And John... even if its just a small group here your advice is priceless. Thanks again Vixen
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 14, 2006 12:31:48 GMT -6
Vixen, that is fantastic news. Go get em girl ;D
David
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Post by anirbas on Oct 14, 2006 21:52:50 GMT -6
walks in wearing a postal uniform...ggglgggl...oh my stars...this thread isn't just about you talking about how to get published, John boy...we are interacting in here...drops a letter in his lap...a bill...gggl...drops a letter in Shell's and Vixen's laps, respectively...love letters...
drops a letter into David's lap...a bill...ggglgggl....hands tootsie pops to all, and says, okie dokie...first one to lick their's all up gone gone...gets...gets...gets...to hear someone's uncle sing in the shower as a prize...hehehehehehehe...i so needed the laughs i just got in here...you have no idea...Nirland is dark with miscontent and malificent intent at the moment...but, we won't go there...hope you got your weeds picked...and sports...are soooooooooooooooooooooo boring...dodges flying man things like dirty socks and shoes
and overkicked deflated balls...hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe...has anyone told any of you, i love you, today? well...i just did...i love you dearly for just making me laugh...you're beeeuuuuteeefulllll...all of you.....................................................sabrina
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Post by anirbas on Oct 14, 2006 21:53:43 GMT -6
and that's grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat, Vixen!!!!!!!! knock their literary and literal socks off, lady!
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 16, 2006 10:45:19 GMT -6
hi Vixen;
that's great about the poetry reading. don't let your nerves get to you. relax and have a great time. a good rule of thumb is to not blast thru from poem to poem...pause a bit...talk a bit. there's nothing more boring than having someone charge right thru their stuff. i'm sure you'll do great. is this your first reading?
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Post by shell on Oct 16, 2006 11:11:05 GMT -6
oh WOW Vixen! you go, gal! loving it ... charm their little socks off sweetheart!
thanking goddess Nir did not send me any bills! noooooooo ..... lol
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 16, 2006 12:15:50 GMT -6
i agree with Shell (but don't i always?)...that'll be a great venue for you to get some immediate feedback on your poems. although what i might do if i were you is get there early and try to figure out who else will be reading (if it's an open mic) and fix them in your mind. during the reading you don't want to watch THEIR reactions to your poems because they really won't be listening, they'll be paging thru their own poems and wondering when the hell you're gonna be done with your crap, so they can share their wonderfully golden words with an unsuspecting world which will fall down at their feet in awe of their unbelievable genius. no, you don't want to watch THEIR reactions, because you'll only get polite smiles and polite applause...watch the "civilians" or, better yet, if it's a venue such as a coffee shop or some place like that where there are employees milling about...watch THEM. that'll tell you the true strength of your stuff.
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Post by vixen on Oct 16, 2006 12:38:34 GMT -6
Thanks John, so much for your advice. I am worried about which stuff to present, not the presentation. I am a special ed teacher/counselor in real life. I have done many presentations as well as doing the community theater bit occassionally. The reading of the material doesn't bother me, its what to read, and figuring out how not to panic if I see 40 people snorring. Thyanks for the advice about the other presentors. I know one of them, he would make Shakespear shudder, a real poetry intelectual. I did do a poem at a fundraiser once, he sat in the first row, sighed and looked at his watch the whole time. Quite un-nerving. What shall I do about him? Any suggestions. Thanks everyone for their support. And... John just got y6our book, not reading it yet, need to have a day off cause I have a feeling I won't want to put it down. Can't wait for thurs. Still waiting for Shells.
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 16, 2006 13:28:44 GMT -6
a real "poetry intellectual", huh? a chambray shirted snob. they're the pits and you find them everywhere. they act like they're the keepers of the secret. like only THEY have the intellectual ability to understand their convoluted inbred academically artsy fartsy stuff. he's probably taken a million workshops with everyone and his brother and has published 4 or 5 poems and is working on something new, but he hasn't begun the writing of it yet, because the task is so daunting and he's just doing his research on it. i know the type. you're not going to get any help from him. he's going to show his superiority by being bored with it all. so, just tune him out.
if you feel your work is good, and your delivery is good but you're losing the crowd...stop talking. stand there and don't say a word...not until the place is totally silent. believe me, it WILL get silent. and even then wait another beat or two before you continue.
good luck.
john
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Post by vixen on Oct 16, 2006 23:15:42 GMT -6
John! you know him.lol. Thank AGAIN for the advice. The standing silent... an old teacher's trick, never tired it on adults. Glad it works. I keep thinking of some abvice someone gave me once when I gave my presentation . They said "If you can't dazzle thm with brillance, baffle 'em with bullshit." I wonder if that applies here? Thanks Vixen
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Post by anirbas on Oct 17, 2006 5:31:06 GMT -6
That old maxim applies everywhere, Vix...LOL...You'll do fine...I'm not the least bit concerned you won't...Take care folks and have a great week! Nir
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Post by anirbas on Oct 17, 2006 7:30:43 GMT -6
Okie dokie...I'm probably about to upset the apple cart here, or not...
I'm not "published", per se...And though, it is certainly a dream of mine, to see my stuff in print, in hard copy form in a book, I must admit, Yam...I'm not particularily concerned with that aspect of writing...As do you not believe, hard copy print in books or magazines, is swiftly going the way of dinosaur? Here today, fading fast, and gone tomorrow?
Computers, the internet, technology are quickly taking over...One newspaper after another has gone out of business in the past fifteen years...As more and more people, get their news from the net and satellite television...So, in essence and theory, it is my belief in the future, we will all be posting our braingases on the internet, if we so dare...Whether we get paid for them, or acknowledged by any type of literary stuffed shirt, yes?
I percieve the thought, amongst some, that if you are not published in a book or a magazine, you aren't anything but a plugged nickel...And yet, since I finally caught up with the times, and got a computer over three years, ago...In my opinion, I've seen writers as good, if not better, than those whose books I pick up from the clearance shelf at Border's or some such place...Will admit, as a direct result of finding such talent on the internet, I buy far, far, far fewer books of poetry, these past years, than I ever have...
I find I'm more interested and inspired by those, many times, I read on the net...That I glean more courage to keep writing from those I choose to surround myself with, en masse, at any given internet site...
I like your no nonsense approach to publishment, John. And know it to be tried and true...But, writing is like acting and modeling...Just because you don't make it to the "bigtime", doesn't mean you aren't good, if not better than the one's that did...Or that you're a sissy or lack motivation if you go the internet route to get yourself and your stuff, off the metaphorical presses of your mind and out there...
For is not the entire reason to write, beyond the doing of it, is that it be read by others?
Millions peruse the internet at any given time...Internet writers, GET READ! Unless one is writing souly to see one's words in buyable print or for the accolades the sentence, I'm a published writer, brings...
In my case, it's not so much am I going to make money from this and eventually be accepted in some hoity toity inner circle...As do I have the guts to put what's in my head, out there, anywhere, at all?
I'm an avid and livid bibliophile...Have collected books, all my life...And will continue to do so, even when hard copy printing is obsolete...And it will be...
I foresee a time, when only the very rich, or those in whatever fields of academia can ill afford books, that are more and more expensive, as fewer and fewer of them are printed...
I foresee a time, when writers of any type, poetry, prose-both fiction and nonfiction, essays, short stories...Won't make a thin dime, period...As we'll all be putting it out there on the internet, as that will pretty much be the only place to put it...So to speak...
However, having typed all that pollyannaish idealistic bullshit, as soon as I get a printer, you can bet your bottom or last dollar, I'll be printing copies and mailing them out...ggglgggl...
Be all these neither here nor there, escaping from my head thoughts, as they maybe...
I do believe, live poetry readings, whether in coffee houses, poetry reading bars, in libraries, etc...Will continue to flourish, even after the printing press takes it's next and last breath and bellyflops into the pages of history...
And before I stop buying new books, totally...First I have to get something on my nirlibrary shelves done by Shell, Jeff, and Lauren...But, then again...I'm the gal that makes handwritten copies of the stuff I like by any poet, published or otherwise, and frames them to hang on my walls, as art................................*
Sabrina
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 17, 2006 8:01:03 GMT -6
hi sabrina;
while i can appreciate your thoughts on printed books being on their way out...they're totally wrong. the publishing industry is BOOMING. people as far back as Henry Miller back in the 50s was saying the printed word was on its way out...why do you think people like Borders and Barnes and Noble are always expanding? the market just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 17, 2006 9:03:30 GMT -6
For our generation, ( I don't it's a secret that the posters on this thread are mainly all over 45) the printed book still reins supreme. There is nothing like holding a book in your hands and reading. John I'd be interested to know when you give readings what the age profile is, This may not necessarily true for the younger generation. I met a very intelligent man of 24 and I was shocked to learn he had never read a book in his life! Scary thought I think the new technology will help writers the way it has helped musicians. Many now only release their music via the INTERNET, therefore cutting out the 'middle man' and keeping the all royalties for themselves. You pay your fee. Download it print it out. Or take it to a printer get it bound for a few dollars. This of course raises copyright issues, but that's a whole new can of yamrus, anirbus, and Shellus! Davidus minimus  |
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 17, 2006 9:56:09 GMT -6
Yikes! a can of Yamrus, Anirbus and Shellus!!!!!
should most likely kill-us!
and you're wondering about the age in an audience when i give readings? it really runs the whole gamut...which is nice. the ones who are buyers are usually the older ones, which is understandable, because they're the ones with the cash.
and i think that's another reason why the printed word won't go away. i mean, writers aren't going to write for free. sure, there's any number of people who do it for the sheer love of it and post their work to get their poems or prose read and to spread the word that way. but for anyone wanting to make a serious living at it, the printed word is still the way to go. of course you've got those downloadable e-books from places like LULU, but they're impossible to market and harder still to sell.
on top of that, there's still the pure physical pleasure of sitting down with a book...how many people do you see on a beach with a laptop crammed into their bag to read the latest trashy summer novel? nobody. you get that old paperback book and jam it into yr bag alongside the sun screen and tequila, and you're ready to go!
additionally, hard, concrete items...real items...are for impulse buyers...at a reading...after i hopefully get a crowd worked up and excited about my stuff...do you think i'd sell many people on the idea of running right home and downloading a copy of my latest book? no chance! or, take any music concert...would people actually run out and buy a rock and roll t-shirt or poster if it weren't right there in front of them when they're all worked up from the experience? nah, there'll always be books as long as there's writers good enough to shake somebody up and get them in a buying mood.
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 17, 2006 10:15:53 GMT -6
What I'd like to know is how do you protect your copyright? ... something I touched on at the end of my last post. You/we are plastered all over the internet.
I've seen writers remove their stuff after a 'given time' and leaving 'headless threads' where there is no poem to comment on! Leaving the poor admin to clean up ;D
David
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 17, 2006 10:28:27 GMT -6
don't some sites copyright things for the authors? in any case...hell, they're just poems! i don't think there's really anything that can stop some bozo from taking anyone's poem and putting their name on it on some internet site somewhere. but, hell, it's that way with books, too! and how many poets do you know who are making money from their poems?
now, i know...you're gonna say me. but it took me a hell of a long time to reach this point...and i still don't care. i mean i've already seen poems pop up on sites around the net which are obvious thinly veiled rewrites of my poems. but what's it matter? are they gonna steal and rewrite me their whole career? they gonna spend 36 years tracking me or anyone else? nah, sooner or later they'll run out of gas or realize they don't have what it takes and they'll move out of Dodge...and, like the cockroach and Cher still being around after an atomic blast...so will i.
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 17, 2006 10:33:13 GMT -6
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Post by anirbas on Oct 17, 2006 20:54:16 GMT -6
All I know, is it's an interesting and informative gas reading through this thread...
Ooh...ooh...ooh...This is a direct dig at me....ggglgggl...
"I've seen writers remove their stuff after a 'given time' and leaving 'headless threads' where there is no poem to comment on! Leaving the poor admin to clean up..."
Stop picking at me, you tease...I didn't know I couldn't erase anything but my own posts in a thread I started...I was attempting to thin out all the nirpostings, as this place started filling up with writers...
Ooh...Ooh...Ooh...Just for fun, to make your brow sweat more...I think I'll run around this evening erasing lots of the first postings on my stuff...hehehehehehehehe...NOT...
As I'm financially cash strapped at any given time, I cannot afford to even think about copywriting at this point...But, each poem I post I consider the least bit any good of mine...I put a curse upon...Anyone "borrowing" it, in their name, shall grow myriad boils upon their arses, posthaste...Besides, in a writer's case, thievery is a sort of a form of flattery...LOL...
But, yes?
Only site I know of at this point, that copyrights, is Poetry.com
[dodges flying inkwell from the Yam's desk for mentioning poetry.com...LOL]
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 18, 2006 5:33:46 GMT -6
sabrina;
you're forgetting what i said (i think i said) about common copyrights. if you're really concerned about stuff you've posted or stuff you're sending off to a publisher...get copies and mail them to yourself. when they arrive...don't open the package...make sure the postal stamp along with the date is clear and legible...then like i said...don't open it...just file it away. this is proof that at least as of the date on the stamp that they were YOUR creation.
common copyright. costs you nothing but postage.
100% sustainable in a court of law.
john
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 18, 2006 5:58:52 GMT -6
Actually Sabrina, I wasn't referring to you at all, but what I've come across on other sites  David |
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 19, 2006 12:50:11 GMT -6
this should open some eyes...yesterday i was talking (via e-mail) with one of the most widely published poets in america...no! i'm not bragging, that's not the part i say will open some eyes. this is: we were just talking between ourselves and i wasn't doing an "interview" or anything like that, so i won't mention any names...anyway, this writer who has published more than 3000 poems still finds it difficult to crack into the majors...as all poets do. but this writer recognises that it's a little bit of work and even after a 40 year career as one of the most famous poets in america still sends out via snail mail hard copy announcements of each and every new book to as many independant bookstores in the country that can be identified. that impressed the hell out of me. i thought i work hard to make my books sell...but this was like yamrus on steroids! that just goes to show you that the writing's the easy part. getting published is the easy part. the real work is after the book's published. and it never stops. just imagine how difficult it is for someone just starting out. it's just like with anything else...the lower down on the food chain you are, the harder you've gotta work.
on another matter...i was wondering if anyone got up the courage to send something out to a magazine or two? anyone? did anyone even go out and get any of the reference books i suggested? if you did, let me know...let us all know...and we can talk about what you found in the reference books or how things are going for you sending things out to magazines. and remember...start small. you don't get to play Madison Square Garden without first playing in a few shit-heel bars.
john
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 19, 2006 17:18:50 GMT -6
she set it up a few weeks ago as: www.myspace.com/johnyamrusthere's also one that i put up but really don't maintain much just because i'm lazy and really don't care much for websites and stuff...but it has a pretty neat and nearly complete list of all the magazines my work has appeared in over the years. there's also some interesting links there as well. that site is: johnyamrus.tripod.com/John I never realised you were such a handsome devil! and thanks mucho for the link back  David |
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 19, 2006 17:54:46 GMT -6
actually, that watercolor was done by internationally renouned artist Henry Denander. he's known for making silk purses out of sow's ears. there's a link to his website on my own site. on HIS you can see some of his well-known paintings.
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Post by johnyamrus on Oct 22, 2006 9:59:36 GMT -6
well, david...i've said it before several times and been proven wrong each time, but maybe now our little thread here has finally run its course. no one's responded regarding any of those helpful books i suggested and no one's said anything about sending something out to any magazines or publishers of any kind, so i can only conclude that nothing's been done. that's usually the case, though. i'm not surprised.
in general, things are going well for me lately...kathy and i will be going to mexico in november. i've had a few more poems that will be coming out in Romanian shortly. i'm closing in on my 900th piece published in print magazines. honestly, i have no complaints in any facet of my life. i'll certainly continue to look in on this thread, but i think we're finally done. again, if anyone has any questions, but for some reason you don't want to make them known to the group, please feel free to write me direct at jyamrus@aol.com. i don't bit...although i may growl a bit every now and then.
in conclusion, i guess the whole thing about writing for publication is being persistent, consistent and organised.
gotta run.
john
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Post by DavidMc on Oct 22, 2006 10:04:13 GMT -6
Thanks John ... Enjoy Mexico!
David
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